From AutoCAD to ArchiCAD – Step 8: Data Exchange and Interoperability

Hello and welcome to another episode of Design Under Influence.

I'm your host, Alex.

I work for ARC it.

We're an IT company that helps architecture firms grow, thrive and generally do well and avoid big issues like security breaches and lost time due to technology issues, stuff like that.

We only work with architects, designers and engineers.

And today we're talking about something very, very technology, highly technology related.

And we've been talking about this with Willard for a while and today we're in step eight.

And just to bring us back for a second, 10 steps for successful conversion from AutoCAD, which a lot of people still on to Archicad, which a lot of people should be on to make your firm better in so many directions.

It's, it's, it's pretty sensational, say, I would not be afraid of that word to say that it's, it changes, it's a dimension, it's a different dimension that you're going to be operating in.

However, there is work going to any sort of software upgrades, even you know, try to change your accounting software, that's going to be difficult.

But changing your main design software and the whole output of your team is quite significant.

And Willard's been kind enough to break it down for us in very, very small, detailed and manageable steps.

Right, Willard?

Yes sir.

Yes sir.

He is, he is Willard Williams.

He is here for you and mostly for you.

I'm just here ask asking questions.

We are at step number eight.

So we've done a lot.

I'm not going to repeat all the steps.

If you've been following this serious and getting yourself educated on this conversion by now, you are where, Willard, where are we right now and who this is going to be for this step eight in a ten step process.

So step eight we're going to talk about data exchange and interoperability.

So this is, you know, we're following up on kind of the template discussion and how important that is.

And this dovetails really well with kind of that discussion.

This is in kind of BIM workflows.

This is one of the more critical aspects of getting your information into the hands of other stakeholders and allowing them to be able to work in a more seamless, connected way than any other way.

Especially if you're using AutoCAD.

This is going to be the bridge between all of your consultants, your owners, your subcontractors and other stakeholders.

And so this is a very critical and enlightening step.

Okay, well there'll be a lot of tie ins with the conversations we've done before this Isn't, I'm sorry to say, like we're not able to make this an entertainment show because this is serious.

This is, this is serious business.

Even though, you know, there, there are opportunities for, I guess some deviations and segues into some other things.

But at the end of the day, this is your core functional, this is your most important, one of the most important things you'll do for your, for your firm.

So we take it very seriously and forgive us if we're not, you know, making too many jokes today, right, Willard?

Maybe a little bit, Maybe a few if we can squeeze them in.

Yeah, definitely.

Got to keep the jokes in the, in the thread.

In the thread.

Okay, so let's get into this Step number eight, data exchange and interoperability.

Where do we start with that?

So data exchange is a critical part to ensuring that all the stakeholders can collaborate effectively across different disciplines and software platforms to increase the project's ability to be read and digested by other parties.

And so one of the kind of critical pieces that follows in line with what we had been talking about previously, you know, in the template generation, in the document generation, is establishing a data exchange workflow.

And so that is in a lot of ways similar to what we have talked about.

But this definitely dives a little bit deeper into enhancing what it is that you're sharing with other stakeholders and how that information is going to be visible and able to be read by other parties as you kind of jump through kind of of this phase.

So for example, once we get to a point where we're ready to share information, so in previous steps we have talked about just producing sheets that we're sharing the information with our clients or maybe building officials and things like that.

And this step ties into that.

So you will also potentially be sharing backgrounds in two dimensional formats in PDF or in DWG or any other kind of flat CAD kind of environment or in three dimensional cad.

But what this also does is that this provides kind of the sandbox for how you are going to be sharing three dimensional information or analysis information with engineers and things like that.

So just to kind of start off with kind of kind of the top of the list, you know, some of the first people or kind consultants that you're going to be sharing information with are going to be the structural engineers.

And typically based on their sophistication, they might be using, you know, autocad, they might be using Revit, they might be using Tekla, or they might be using more advanced software like Skia, which is a nemashek owned company.

So Skia works well with archicad.

So you're able to share analytic, soft or analytic information with these other consultants that will increase their ability to both understand kind of the design and also start to make modifications.

And especially with applications like Skia, you're able to bring that information back into archicad so that your collaboration and coordination is at like the highest level that you, that you're looking for.

So that definitely is something to be cognizant of because within archicad you have, you know, a lot of different options of sharing information.

But you know, starting with the ability to share the analytics that are coming from your structural models or incorporating that is going to be part of this kind of collaboration, kind of exchange that you're looking for.

Then we go into kind of BIM collaboration.

So because archicad is a parametric BIM modeling application, you ideally want to be sharing that information with your consultants and potentially other trade partners or, you know, even the ownership or leadership teams that you're working with.

And archicad has kind of been kind of the leader for a long time in the ability to translate that, that information so that it is read multiple different BIM applications.

And that software, that file format is called IFC or industry foundation classes.

And in a lot of ways archicad has been the leader of that file format.

And because it's a universal file format that should be read by all BIM applications, they have definitely spearheaded and provided a lot of the groundwork to allow for their models as well as other applications to be able to share and digest information in a format that is readable.

And what that allows you to do is that basically allows you to convert your model and in another application, open it up as close to native as possible.

So if you were working with somebody who's using Tekla, you would be able to export your model as an IFC file and they would be able to translate that IFC file into their native file formats and be able to work right away from it.

So you can imagine if we were going back even 20 years ago and we wanted to exchange information, we would potentially be sharing either two dimensional CAD information or two dimensional drawings that were hand drawn.

And the amount of rework, recreating the wheel every time that you made changes or that you were updating information, and the amount of loss or errors in omission that arises from that translation style could be rather significant.

But because of the ability to translate software natively and precisely skips that step.

So, you know, in in reality, the way that we are exchanging information through archicad to other applications is at such a level that we are basically truncating a lot of the potential issues that have arisen through coordination, you know, historically within the profess or, you know, within this discipline.

And so can I.

Can I interject for just a second?

So I've had.

If the structural engineering firm is using revit, does this IFC export translates well into Revit and then back to IFC and then back into your archicad?

Yeah, I mean, it translates as best as it can.

It translates very well into Revit and it translates out of Revit back into archicad.

But because of how both of the platforms organize data, there does become a point at which you are sharing a model, but you aren't necessarily reaping all of the benefits of having that model natively created in that application.

But that, unfortunately, is just for Revit, because Revit.

Revit has been historically very apprehensive to being.

And so archicad has always been the highest certification available for ifc.

But Revit, even in the early days of revit, they wouldn't share their files as IFC files or made it very impossible or actually made it, like, problematic.

So the way that they were translating their information into ifc.

So there was a host of things, and it probably lasted a good eight years in the early days of revit, that it was either not possible or very problematic to get an IFC file from revit.

But archicad has always provided the ability to share a model as an IFC file and also be able to natively organize the information as closely to the software that's reading it, as well as being able to digest it again into archicad.

And so that would be kind of the round trip kind of feature that you're looking for, is that ability to come out of Revit or come out of archicad into another application and then come back.

And so some applications are better at that than others.

And then there also are some complexities because some applications have a different end goal.

So, for instance, like Tekla, though, you can translate and digest an IFC file from archicad CAD very well into Tekla.

The information that's natively created in Tekla has a different purpose than what archicad's end goal is.

So, meaning that Tekla is designed to do Very complex structural elements and also potentially fabricate from their model.

So you potentially could be laser cutting or CNC bending or doing very complex kind of exercises out of Tekla.

And so there's a lot more detail, there's a lot more information that comes out of Tekla's model.

And just a short example is a couple of the high rises that I always have worked on.

The structural steel fabricator was using the models to basically plasma cut out, you know, certain openings into the structural steel.

And then they were also using the model to do quantity takeoffs for all of the hardware.

And so when they were modeling like the connection hardware, you know, like bolts and screws and washers and things like that, their models contained the exact representation of that information.

And when they shared it with me, it was so detail rich that it took a little bit of conditioning, I guess, in a sense to go through the model and isolate the information that was critical and then turn off other information so that it was, you know, a little bit more clean.

But archicad is really good at handling super complex data rich models.

So it's not necessarily a problem for archicad in its handling.

It's just more of a cumbersome feature when you're navigating a model.

And all of the detail is exactly what is going to be there when the project's finally completed.

So, and that goes back into understanding, you know, your template, the data exchange, which means how you are going to isolate information, how you want to see that information.

But again, this sharing of information is, that is kind of the basis of what we're doing, is we want to provide, you know, the most detail rich information, potentially excluding some of the information that is not necessary for certain disciplines.

So that does get into how you share the information.

So for a structural engineer, they're not going to want to see certain elements when they get the model, or for the MEP teams, they're not going to want to see other information.

So you're going to create these layer combinations or view sets or model view options or different ways that you're sharing the information, you're going to save that as a known exchange format or kind of a template of how you exchange that.

And then once you get into the groove of being able to, like once your engineer or consultant gets the information, they say, this is the exact way that I want to see it.

You can save that preset or that template of how you're exchanging it.

And then from there it is a very rewarding experience to be a part of where you can show up one day and they say, I want a new, you know, a new background, which can mean a lot of things in the industry.

But if you are sharing a three dimensional file with them, you just go in and publish that file pretty quickly and then they have the information and then they can send back the information that you're looking for and integrate it into your model.

And really that's, that's the dream of what we're trying to do, is to be a very tightly closed kind of exchange of information that provides both the richness of the information, the accuracy, and, and in a lot of the discussions that we're talking about, we are talking about broadly bim, but BIM is also not just three dimensional information, but it's the data that's coming through that you should be able to extract.

So it's beam sizes, it's, you know, the element types or material types or potentially the hangers or things like that that are critical to your ability to design, you know, a comprehensive, well coordinated project.

Gotcha.

As opposed to AutoCAD, where this information takes a lot more time for checking in and checking out the project as it.

Yeah, I think other collaborators come in.

Yeah, I think, I think it would be very, very difficult if you were trying to exchange this level of data, this level of modeling between, you know, five different applications and 20 different consultants.

Because AutoCAD, you know, historically is a two dimensional kind of platform, though they have migrated into more three dimensional information.

But even then, exchanging BIM Data out of AutoCAD or into Revit or into, you know, different applications would almost be impossible.

And I think that for a long time I'm trying to think of it now is still kind of an issue, but for a long time you couldn't even bring in a DWG.

So an AutoCAD format file into Revit.

I know you can now, but even now, even though they're made or owned by the same parent company, their revit still has problems with how it represents that information inside of its own application.

So in a lot of ways it's nearly impossible to have the level of sophistication, the level of accuracy, the level of interoperability that you would with archicad or any other application out there.

What are some of the gotchas with this step?

Where do you find people need most help when you come in and parachute in as a consultant to help people, you know, migrate successfully at this level, at this step, this level of the conversion process where maybe give us one or two gotchas that you were able to resolve for some folks?

Yeah, that's a great question.

One of the things to alleviate the gotchas is to establish a BIM execution plan.

And so in that process, you outline all of the kind of requirements of the relationship that you're going to dive into with these consultants or trade partners.

And so, so that kind of initial, kind of kickoff meeting is what I use to establish the ground rules.

So what that means is that.

So one of the gotchas, which is probably one of the larger pain points in any kind of coordination, is having a coordinated location where you're modeling.

So that means that, that different applications have a different relative 00 point and, or a starting point.

And so what I like to do initially is I start out with creating what is called a fiduciary.

And so I create a basic object at my 00 and I send that file as a blank, almost blank file, except for the location of the origin point.

And so when I send that out and I say, this is my 00, and I want you to make this your 00, that single piece of coordination will save hundreds of hours of pain and suffering in the future.

Because.

Because what happens or has happened in the past is that I start at 00.

What I think is 00, somebody else starts at their 00 coordinate.

And then we get down the road six weeks and then we say, okay, it's time for us to exchange information and, you know, basically start this interoperability coordination effort.

We often would find that their 00, even though it looked like it was at 00, was not necessarily at the cardinal coordinate origin point.

And when you have already established sheets and models and things like that and trying to realign those, that could be super painful.

So having a clear starting point, that's like one major area.

Another major area is getting to what information they see.

And that's probably another really hard part, is when you're exchanging information, you need to establish what the pins are.

Layers is a great one.

And I think materials can and can't be, but so establishing a baseline.

So you say, can I see one of your models?

And then I'm going to share a model that might not be relevant, or I'm going to share a model that has all of the basic information that I'm going to be using.

And then I think that's the, probably the hardest part because not everybody has a license to Tekla Revit, you know, skia, all these other applications.

And so establishing that groundwork of who and what and how Information is going to be shared is probably one of the key points.

You know, it takes probably two or three hours to kind of establish like, this is what I want to see, or this is the line type that I need to translate into a different type or various different ever other pieces.

Those are kind of the major gotcha points.

All right, so we have a few more minutes.

Let's round this out.

I feel like I'm so theoretically enriched with this whole process that I can potentially guide someone into this conversion by just saying things and never having to work with the tool myself.

It's cool.

It feels a little unreal, but I do follow you.

It makes sense.

I understand how software works.

And this is another software.

It just has a little bit different purpose than some other things I worked with.

But having said that, what some of the other things that you want to convey so we can round out this step and people feel like, okay, they got their, you know, data in line and they're ready for, you know, next.

Yeah.

So just to quickly round this out, archicad is literally one of, if not the best application to exchange information with or out of.

It provides a multitude of native exchange formats.

So IFC is one where it's like a generic file format that's theoretically supposed to be used by all BIM applications, or at least read by all BIM applications that might not necessarily be.

It sounds really lofty and it sounds like the perfect solution, but often there are pieces of that translation that get lost.

But Archicad natively exports to Revit, DWG, to SketchUp, to Skia, to probably, I would say like close to 50 or maybe 30 different file formats natively, and also translates those files back.

So that, I think is the easy part, getting your information out and readable.

I think the biggest piece again is understanding what information you are producing and how that information looks, making sure that it looks the way that you want it to look for your own purposes.

And then second is when you're exchanging information between different disciplines and different applications, starting with a baseline, ensuring that the data that you're exchanging is being able to be viewed in a way that the trade partner or consultant is able to read that information and then getting it back, back, and that's it.

And once you have that protocol established of how you communicate, and I guess it's like, what do they call that, like, you know, the Tower of Babel.

Whereas, like, you know, like, you can you.

Everybody's going to be speaking a different language.

Everybody has different directions and intents and responsibilities.

But if you can establish the baseline of, I want you to understand what I'm saying.

And then the second person says, I understand what you're saying.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

Once you've established that in terms of modeling and terms of information exchange, it's a whole new paradigm, you're able to do things that historically have never been possible.

You're able to see information and interact with information that has never been available to humanity and civilization as we know it.

You always do this to me.

You always tell, go cosmic at the end.

This is incredible.

All right, well, there you have it, folks.

You know, you want to save the world.

You know, follow.

Follow the best practices.

The best practices according to Willard Williams for saving the world is get into archicad and design beautiful spaces for people to live so they can go create other things and so on and so forth until we're all safe and live in nirvana, right?

Yep.

Yep.

Perfect.

Love it.

I love it.

It's not just, you know, you know, ones and zeros.

This is.

This is.

We have a meaning here.

And if you want to join this train of innovation and world change and improvement, go to getarchit.com let's get real.

Let's get your IT in line first.

Let's get your computers working, let's get your people productive, and then we, meaning us and Willard together, we can help you go into the archicad world and improve your company.

And then everything's going to be just great.

Get archit.com Willard, thank you very much for this illuminating conversation.

And I'll see you on Step nine next week.

All right, thanks.

All right, buddy, have a fantastic day.

And all of you watching and listening, thank you for your time.